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Toltec Wisdom and the Tao Te Ching

Discuss the religious aspects and approaches.

Toltec Wisdom and the Tao Te Ching

Postby pat » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:28 pm

Hi All

There has been much written on this forum about the similarities about these teachings .... I recently recieved this email from some one who has a fresh look on it and it resonated with me in a very deep way ... i wanted to share this with everyone...

:)

Thank you for your kind interest, here is the first installment.

I recently read The Four Agreements by don Miguel Ruiz and I was
impressed with the wisdom, as well as the clarity and brevity of the
work. I re-read it and then read the companion book. After reading the
books I began to think that the spiritual
awakening we are all moving toward is less "spooky" than I had
previously thought. Perhaps the categorization of,
"this is spiritual and that is physical" is more of the polar thought
process that confuses more than clarifies.
Perhaps the spiritual awakening is an awakening of physical perception
as well.

Eckhart Tolle writes, "Beyond the beauty of the external forms, there is
more here: something that cannot be named, something ineffable, some
deep, inner, holy essence. Whenever and wherever there is beauty, this
inner essence shines through
somehow. It only reveals itself to you when you are present."

Hameed Ali (A.H. Almaas) writes: "Everything around you is in the
process of creativity, is in the process of being,
or coming into being: creation. That is actually the objective
situation - everything you see around you is being
created every second... Forget about the past, don't think of time.
Think about right now... There is a constant process
of magical creation every second... If you see from this perspective,
there is a sense of newness. Everything is newly
created, not only what we call the essential (spiritual) dimension; even
the physical dimension..."

Almaas writes in the preface of his Diamond Heart series, "We live in a
world of mystery, wonder, and beauty. But
most of us seldom participate in this real world..."

Personally, I remember experiencing the world in this way, as a child.
Experiencing the world for the first time. As I
became a "grown up" it appears that I fell asleep and now when I see a
flower or a tree, a salamander or a dragonfly,
I see through the mist of the knowledge and history. As Almaas states,
this is NOT the objective perception, this is
subjective and what many spiritual disciplines call the illusion.

don Miguel Ruiz has proposed the wisdom that can clear this mist and
awaken us to the real world, in my opinion.
He suggests that we have made "agreements" with our selves, our fellows,
and our world. By changing these
agreements, we can change the way we interact and hence perceive that world.

The first agreement - Be impeccable with your word. Ruiz states, "Your
word is the power you have to create." He writes
that the human mind is like fertile soil where seeds are always being
planted. Being "impeccable" requires us to use our
words carefully to bless and honor others and ourselves. The way to
accomplish this agreement is to avoid judging or
blaming others and ourselves; our words should be compassionate and
uplifting.

Concisely, speak with integrity, say what you mean, and avoid using
words to speak against yourself and others. Use
words to further truth and love.

Tao Te Ching 23:

Speak little
Hold to your own nature
One who lives in accordance with the truth
becomes the embodiment of Tao
Their actions become those of nature
their ways those of heaven

Tao Te Ching 27:

A knower of truth...
Speaks without causing harm...
The sage is always on the side of virtue
so everyone around her prospers
She is always on the side of truth
so everything around her is fulfilled

Tao Te Ching 73:

Bold action against others leads to death
Bold action in harmony with Tao leads to life

You might wonder how changing how you act toward and respond to your
environment will alter the
way you perceive your environment, I asked this question myself. In
"The Mastery of Love" also by Ruiz,
he writes, "If you can control your reactions, you will find that soon
you are going to see, meaning to perceive
things as they really are... There's a big difference between seeing
the way people see in the Dream, and seeing
without judgment, as it is. The difference is in the way your emotional
body reacts to what you perceive..."

I hope this is interesting to you. I have done the same thing with the
other 3 agreements. Let me know if
you are interested and I will send another one.

In love and light,

Bruce
Bruce Magnotti
Please reference my email address, as I would love to communicate with anyone who feels the relationship
is important. I have been rekateing the ancient wisdom of the Tao Te Ching to many modern "masters" and
it is a wonderful afirmation of both, in my opinion.
bruce@webentry.com
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Toltec Wisdom and the Tao Te Ching part 2

Postby pat » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:07 pm

This is the second part of this relationship between the Tao Te Ching
and The Four Agreements by don Miguel Ruiz.

I was reading J. Krishnamurti this morning, his talk in Mexico City in
October of 1935, "What I Want To Do."

"Either you are conscious of the chaotic state of the world, or you are
completely asleep, living in a fantastic world, in an illusion.
There can be fundamental and lasting change in the world, there can be
love and intelligent fulfillment, only when you wake up
and begin to free yourself from the net of illusions, the many illusions
which you have created about yourself through fear."

I was impressed by the words of Ruiz when he described the dream of the
planet. "What you are seeing and hearing right now
is nothing but a dream." Our evening dreams and our waking "reality"
are not very different. When I look at you, or hear your
words, I see you as an impression, my impression of you. When I hear
your words I hear my interpretation of what you are
saying. I do not see you as you really are, nor as you see yourself.
You are also dreaming, this is why we do not understand each other;
why the world's organized religions "fight" over the truth. It is an
amazing phenomenon to read the ancient and modern spiritual
texts and realize they are all speaking the same truth. As Tara stated,
"It has been my conclusion that they are speaking the same truth's,
just with different words and from different angles. It looks like a
beautiful unity of all of our various paths..we are beginning to see
that we are all going in the same direction and virtually searching for
the same thing. Now our paths are coming close enough that each of us
can see one another and know that where one may stand isn't so
different a place as the other... Love is all there is..."

To reiterate, after reading the books I began to think that the
spiritual awakening we are all moving toward is less
"spooky" than I had previously thought. Perhaps the categorization of,
"this is spiritual and that is physical" is
more of the polar thought process that confuses more than clarifies.
Perhaps the spiritual awakening is an
awakening of physical perceptions as well.

Hameed Ali (A.H. Almaas) writes: "When you are looking at a pool of
water and you see a reflection, you know the
reflected object is not really there, it is just a reflection. You know
that what is there is water. It is the same thing with
the mind: When you look, you see the content of the mind, but you know
it is a reflection. We take the reflection in the
water to be what is there most of the time, and we forget the water.
After awhile we take our minds to be what is there
and we forget the true reality."

Of course, others also take what is in their minds to be "what is
there," as well. If we accept their words as indications of our worth
and character, we are assuming their reality is the same as ours, this
is simply not the objective situation. If someone is
pleased with you, or pleased with themselves, they are more likely to
say kind words to you. If they are unhappy with
you, or miserable that day, they are more likely to insult you or
criticize you. I realize this sounds simple, as it is.

Eckhart Tolle wrote that we are "...Part of a profound transformation
that is taking place in the collective consciousness of the planet and
beyond: the awakening of consciousness from the dream of matter, form
and separation."

The second agreement - Don't take anything personally. Ruiz states,
"Nothing others do is because of you. What
others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream."

Just as we are to be careful with our words, we should be careful not to
take other's words personally. What anyone
says or does is ALL about them, never about you. Ruiz states. "All
people live in their own mind; they are in a completely
different world from the one we live in." Ruiz cautions that words of
praise or words of blame are not to be taken personally,
"Either way, it does not affect me because I know what I am."

If we are reliant on what others think for our self-esteem or
self-image, even in a minimal way, we will be "setting ourselves
up for needless suffering." One of the interesting yet subtle aspects
of the second agreement is that, when we take things
personally, we defend ourselves, either outwardly or inwardly. Ruiz
writes, "When you take things personally, then you feel offended.
and your reaction is to defend your beliefs and create conflicts."
There is great wisdom in the teaching that "defense is a form of attack"
though we often do not think of our reactions in that way.

Here is how the Tao Te Ching relates to the wisdom of the fourth agreement:

Tao Te Ching 13:

Be wary of both honor and disgrace
Honor is founded on disgrace
and disgrace is rooted in honor
Both should be avoided
Both bind a person to this world

Tao Te Ching 44:

One's own reputation - why the fuss?
One's own wealth - why the concern?
Be content,
rest in your own fullness -
You will not suffer from loss
You'll avoid the snare of the world

Tao Te Ching 56:

Become one with the dust of the world
This is called
"The Secret Embrace"
One who knows this secret
is not moved by attachment or aversion,
swayed by profit and loss,
nor touched by honor and disgrace
He is far beyond the cares of others

Tao Te Ching 81:

Words born of the mind are not true
True words are not born of the mind
Those who have virtue do not look for faults
Those who look for faults have no virtue

Again, in "The Mastery of Love" also by Ruiz, he writes, "If you can
control your reactions,
you will find that soon you are going to see, meaning to perceive
things as they really are... There's a big difference
between seeing the way people see in the Dream, and seeing without
judgment, as it is. The difference is in the way
your emotional body reacts to what you perceive..."


Bruce Magnotti
Love and light
namaste
Pat
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Postby pat » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:57 pm

The third agreement is "Don't Make Assumptions." According to Ruiz,
"Find the courage
to ask questions and to express what you really want." Asking for
clarification of what
we see others doing or hear others saying is important because we do not
know what
anyone else is thinking or meaning. I have difficulty understanding my
own feelings
and thoughts at times, how can I assume that I know what someone else is
feeling or
thinking?

According to Ruiz, "The problem with making assumptions is that we
believe they are
true." In relationships making assumptions causes much of the drama we
experience.
'Often we make the assumption that our partners know what we think and
that we don't
have to say what we want. We assume they are going to do what we want,
because
they know us so well." "we make the assumption that everyone sees life
the way we
do."

"The way to keep yourself from making assumptions is to ask
questions... Also, find
your voice to ask for what you want."

Again I will relate this agreement to the Tao Te Ching. I have been
asked why I do this,
why the Tao? I appreciate that question and it follows the spirit of
this agreement. The
Tao Te Ching, to me, is less a religious or philosophical work and more
an explanation
of how things work. It is more concerned with physics than philosophy.
I would define
the Tao Te Ching specifically as the physics of relationships;
relationships between us
and the universe, between us and others (all sentient life), between us
and God.

The Tao requires us to consider things like, "what existed prior to
creation?" and "what
will exist when the material world no longer exists?" More important,
the Tao Te Ching
defines all relationships that exist in our cosmos and details how to
thrive in those
relationships. Ruiz definitely puts these concepts into words that we
can understand
and words that can transform our lives. The Tao was written 2,500 years
ago in a seeming
cryptic manner - the closer our physicists get to an understanding of
the universe, the more
the Tao reveals its truth.

The entire concept of the Tao Te Ching, then, is the answer to the
fundamental questions, the
clarification of the mists surrounding those questions. Again, in my
opinion, it is not a religion
or philosophy.

I am convinced that all our mystics, the Buddhist masters, the Hebrews,
the Stoic philosophers, Sufi poets, Christian saints, and the poet
saints of India, all had an
understanding of the Tao, either through the experience of studying it
or the inner knowledge
that is so clearly relates.

Tao Te Ching 15:

Through the course of nature
Muddy water becomes clear
Through the unfolding of life
Man reaches perfection

Tao Te Ching 19:

See with original purity
Embrace with original simplicity

Tao Te Ching 43:

Stillness benefits more than action
Silence benefits more than words
Rare indeed are those who are still
Rare indeed are those who are silent
Rare indeed are those who obtain the bounty of this world

Tao Te Ching 72:

Thus he discards the view of his own self
And chooses the view of the universe
Bruce
Bruce Magnotti

love and light
namaste
pat
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Toltec Wisdom and the Tao Te Ching

Postby Mirjana » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:29 pm

Hi Pat, hi Bruce,
What a wonderful thoughts. Even though I have heard them separately, so put together and in comparison they give to me such a motivation to stay on the path of learning about silence of mind, freedom of perceptions and judgements, on the path of learning and learning about unconditional love.
All quoted words from Don Riaz and Tao Te Ching are pure gems of wisdom.

Thanks a lot for this share of love.

L :) ve
Mirjana
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the fourth agreement..Always do yur best

Postby pat » Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:12 pm

The fourth agreement is very simple - Always Do Your Best

Though it is an important principle in itself, this agreement is
crucial to the first three agreements:

1. Be Impeccable With Your Word - Ruiz states that the mind is like
fertile soil,
seeds are always being planted. The seeds we plant in others minds should
be compassionate and uplifting. The easiest way to accomplish this
agreement
(in the early stages) is to avoid judging or blaming each other. Stop
the gossip!
The seeds we plant in our own minds should be compassionate and
uplifting as well...

2. Don't Take Anything Personally - What ANYONE says is all about them,
never about you. This is a powerful way we can all wake up to our
environment.
Ruiz states, "All people live in their own mind; they are in a
completely different
world from the one we live in." This agreement can be applied to our
own sense of self worth as well, if we are hard on ourselves in this
process, we are taking ourselves personally, as well as perhaps too
seriously.

3. Don't Make Assumptions - Ruiz cautions, "The problem with making
assumptions is that we believe they are the truth." Because we are
afraid to ask for clarity (or too lazy), we instead make assumptions.
This agreement encourages us to ASK QUESTIONS, and do not assume that
others (i.e. our loved ones) know what we want, we have to be
responsible and let them know. The fourth agreement encourages us to
question and clarify our own reasoning as well.

Ruiz warns that trying too hard is just as problematic as not trying
hard enough. We are encouraged to do our best according to our state
of mind and emotions in the present. Our best will become better over
time, with practiced repetition. Ruiz states, "Doing your best is
taking the action because you love it, not because you are expecting a
reward." Learning from mistakes means practice, "this increases your
awareness." "Always do your best and you will avoid self judgment,
self abuse, and regret."

The essence of this fourth agreement is related by Susan Gregg in her
book, The Toltec Way:

"We can't do anything wrong; we merely get outcomes or results we do
not like.
If we take responsibility for the outcome, we can lovingly explore the
choices we
made so we can make different ones in the future."

"The word mistake takes on a new meaning; it means you merely need to
adjust
your choices so you will get a different outcome.'

Jeddu Krishnamurti relates, "You are concerned with the purpose, with
the end, rather than living in the present; whereas a man who fulfills
never inquires into the end because fulfillment itself is sufficient."

"So, we can have understanding of what is when we recognize it without
condemnation, without justification, without identification. To know
that one is in a certain condition, in a certain state, is already a
process of liberation; but a man who is not aware of his condition, of
his struggle, tries to be something other than he is, which brings
about habit."

Gregg Braden, "...it is less important what we accomplish as opposed
to how we accomplish it... How may you fail when your purpose is to
experience?"

A.H. Almaas (Hameed Ali) relates in his "Diamond Heart" series: "The
Work we are engaged in is not easy; in fact, it is very difficult...
To do the Work with love and compassion means to appreciate that this
process is tough... it is best not to give yourself a hard time about
it. You need to learn to be patient, to not judge or criticize
yourself when things do not happen the way you think they should.
You need not be too pessimistic, and also not too optimistic. Balance
is the best way."

Again to answer the question, "..why the Tao?" The answer to that is
twofold, one is that the Tao Te Ching is wisdom and knowledge that has
stood the test of time. The writings are at least 2,500 years old and
have been translated almost as many times as the Bible. If wisdom is
recognized for a period of time, it is perilous to ignore it and
profitable to attempt to understand it. Secondly, the Tao, though it
has been made into religions and understood as philosophy, is in my
understanding a work of physics. It describes how things work, plain
and simply. How do human relationships work, relationships with each
other and with the universe. If you want to live in accordance with
nature, or align yourself with the forces of the universe,
understanding the Tao Te Ching will assist your journey.

I believe the following sections of the Tao Te Ching relate to the 4th
agreement:

Tao Te Ching 27:

The path of the sage is called
"The Path of Illumination"
She who gives herself to this path
is like a block of wood
That gives itself to the chisel
Cut by cut it is honed to perfection
Only a student who gives herself
Can receive the master's gift

Tao Te Ching 29:

Allow your life to unfold naturally
Know that it too is a vessel of perfection
Just as you breathe in and breathe out
Sometimes you are ahead and other times behind
Sometimes you are strong and other times weak
To the sage
All of life is a movement toward perfection

Tao Te Ching 30:

A knower of truth does what is called for then stops

Bruce
Bruce Magnotti

this is the last of the four agreements...the basics of the Toltec knowledge to freedom of your mind.
Love and light
namaste
Pat
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Cloaking the Light

Postby Brutsu » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:09 pm

The Tao Te Ching defines a concept called "Cloaking the Light" that I think is very interesting, this concept or concepts relate to the Toltec wisdom as well.

There are at least two aspects in the Tao Te Chingthat are related to the principle of cloaking the light. One is the complementary nature of polar opposites. Perhaps the best example of this is in the Tao, section 27:

Giving and receiving are one
This is called,
"The great wonder"
"The essential mystery" (or "Cloaking the Light')
"The very heart of all that is true"

The Tao warns that a nation should not reveal its strength to an enemy, that a fish should not venture from deep water if it wants to be safe...

The specific idea is that hidden within each concept is its opposite. So, "whatever you would take, you should therefore give." and "Because she does not compete, no one can compete against her."

Similarly, the second concept is that all life is moving toward death, yet has the essence of immortality within. The best section in the Tao Te Ching might be 52:

The sun in all its glory reveals but a passing world
Only the inner light illumines eternity
Only that light can lead us back home

Have faith
Follow your own shining
Be aware of your own awareness
This is called
"The Practice of Eternal Light" (or in other translations "Cloaking the Light")

The Toltecs understood that the stars do not create light, light creates stars (and that space is not empty). If you believe that the sun will eventually burn out, you are probably wrong. However, it would be a quite a challenge to discover the essence (or source) of the sun's energy. It is also quite a challenge to discover our own essence, the "authentic self" as Carolyn Myss might say. As I visualize it, our ego, or persona, can become clarified or integrated with our whole self. Instead of responding and reacting to situations with projection, denial, rationalization, and other defense mechanisms; we can begin to interact from a deeper place, from
our essential self. That is why I like the writings of Ruiz, especially "The Four Agreements."

Here is an image of a painting that illustrates Cloaking the Light: http://auragallery.com/lightcloak.jpg

Bruce Magnotti
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Re: the fourth agreement..Always do yur best

Postby Mirjana » Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:50 am

Pat wrote:The fourth agreement is very simple - Always Do Your Best

Though it is an important principle in itself, this agreement is
crucial to the first three agreements:

1................this is the last of the four agreements...the basics of the Toltec knowledge to freedom of your mind.
Love and light
namaste
Pat

Dear Pat,
As usually you again did your best. :D
I am totally breathless. To the tears. My deepest gratitude for this summary that Bruce made and you set us. I understand what you meant when you said - resonated with me in a very deep way ...The same happened to me. I am so deeply touched. All this section is to be read and read again and kept as a kind of life guidance.
Thank you so much Pat. I wish that all these blessings you send us come back to you with the same love and intensity.
L :) ve
Mirjana
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Re: Cloaking the Light

Postby Mirjana » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:02 am

Brutsu wrote:The Tao Te Ching defines a concept called "Cloaking the Light" that I think is very interesting, this concept or concepts relate to the Toltec wisdom as well.

Bruce Magnotti
bruce@webentry.com

Hi Bruce,
Thank you so much for wonderful work you did and made us possible to enjoy it. What a nice demonstration of "Giving and receiving are one" Welcome :D :) . I can only hope that you are going to be here often enough so that we can smell from your work and inspiration.
Beside, I visited a site with an illustration of Cloaking the Light.
It was a bit shock for me as it seemed like I saw one of the paintings of my sister in law who died four years ago. She also illustrated my first book of poems. I hope that Alek will be able to show some of her paintings from our family gallery, as they correspond very much to whole your description of Cloaking the Light.
L :) ve
Mirjana
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Re: the fourth agreement..Always do yur best

Postby pat » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:15 am

Mirjana wrote:
Pat wrote:The fourth agreement is very simple - Always Do Your Best

Though it is an important principle in itself, this agreement is
crucial to the first three agreements:


Bruce
Bruce Magnotti

this is the last of the four agreements...the basics of the Toltec knowledge to freedom of your mind.
Love and light
namaste
Pat

Dear Pat,
As usually you again did your best. :D
I am totally breathless. To the tears. My deepest gratitude for this summary that Bruce made and you set us. I understand what you meant when you said - resonated with me in a very deep way ...The same happened to me. I am so deeply touched. All this section is to be read and read again and kept as a kind of life guidance.
Thank you so much Pat. I wish that all these blessings you send us come back to you with the same love and intensity.
L :) ve
Mirjana


Thank you Mirjana :oops: and yes i was filled with a real sense of joy when i understood these agreements...and thank you for you kind wishes...
love
pat
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Re: Toltec Wisdom and the Tao Te Ching

Postby alija » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:40 pm

Pat wrote:Hi All

There has been much written on this forum about the similarities about these teachings .... I recently recieved this email from some one who has a fresh look on it and it resonated with me in a very deep way ... i wanted to share this with everyone...

it is a wonderful afirmation of both, in my opinion.
bruce@webentry.com

Hi all,
I like very much this comparission of the Toltec wisdom and Tao Te Ching, so I asked Bruce to give me complete material and put it under Articles.The Tao Te Ching and four Agreements,
Love and Light
Alek
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Re: Toltec Wisdom and the Tao Te Ching

Postby Mirjana » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:05 pm

ajna wrote:
Pat wrote:Hi All

There has been much written on this forum about the similarities about these teachings .... I recently recieved this email from some one who has a fresh look on it and it resonated with me in a very deep way ... i wanted to share this with everyone...

it is a wonderful afirmation of both, in my opinion.
bruce@webentry.com

Hi all,
I like very much this comparission of the Toltec wisdom and Tao Te Ching, so I asked Bruce to give me complete material and put it under Articles.The Tao Te Ching and four Agreements,
Love and Light
Alek


Hi Pat,
Great :idea: 8)

L :) ve
Mirjana
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